Jim_James 0:00

Hello, and welcome to this episode of the UnNoticed show today. I've got Justin Goldstein, who is the founder and president of press record communications in New York, Justin. Hi, thanks for joining me today from the big apple.

Justin_Goldstein 0:12

Of course. Thanks for having me.

Jim_James 0:13

It's my pleasure now, all the way across there, New York, you're a media specialist. I'd love to hear from you today. How you get your clients noticed using the media

Justin_Goldstein 0:23

sure. So, well again, thank you for having me. So I think one of the main ways that we do so is through what's called strategic media relations, which for the average person, it's a fancy term for publicity and pitching the media. So we take a very targeted approach to doing so by. First finding what our client's goals are. And then after doing that, finding outlets, media outlets that we think are going to be a fit, finding the right reporters or media contacts there that would be interested in covering our clients and then working with those reporters, producers, whoever it might be. To coordinate a story. That's going to either go into the thought leadership insights of an executive or a spokesperson. Tell the company story, do a review of a product. For example, it really just depends on the client, but ultimately it's getting that media coverage. That's going to help to support our client's sales and marketing goals.

Jim_James 1:15

and Justin, just how difficult is it to get media coverage for a client?

Justin_Goldstein 1:21

Think it really depends on who you're working with. I will say that the media landscape has changed where, and this has been happening for years, but, newsrooms, their staffs are getting smaller. A lot of newsrooms and media outlets are getting acquired by holding groups or larger. Media organizations. And so the opportunity for traditional media, I would say is getting a little bit smaller, but that's actually created some new opportunity where reporters have, let's say they've been laid off or they've left their prior publications. I've gone off and started their own podcast or their own newsletters where youhave a site like sub stackk where anybody essentially can be a reporter at this point. So I think the definition of what's considered media from. the traditional sense has definitely changed and there's a lot of opportunity out there. It really just comes down to putting in the effort to finding who those people are and who the right fit is.

Jim_James 2:16

Justin take us through the process that you have at press record because companies come to me at east west and they want to get into the media, but there's often some work we have to do to help them to get ready for that. Can you just take through your process? I'd love to hear how you're getting that done.

Justin_Goldstein 2:34

So, it really comes down to what the goals are of the organization. I've actually started to talk a little bit about this, where I think there's, there's a slight challenge when it comes to putting together public relations programs for some firms where, and more specifically media relations firms, where what I call 30,000 foot goals are established meaning somebody might say, yeah, I want to get on national television. And it's like, okay, well, what does that mean? Right. Meaning do you want to be on more of a CNBC squawk box kind of show or do you want to be on more of the today show? So you really have to try to go around and dive deeper into those 30,000 foot goals. You have a really good understanding of who exactly you want to speak to the story that you want to tell and what kind of coverage you want to see. So that's, that's the first part. And then after that, We come up with a roadmap for developing pitches, identifying who the target media are going to be, and then actually going out and emailing and calling reporters or whoever the right contact is to try to get those opportunities for our clients. But it really, really does start with understanding at a micro and macro and micro level, what those goals are. So you can really make sure you're getting the right coverage.

Jim_James 3:48

Okay. And those goals are tied into business goals, or are they really marketing and branding goals

Justin_Goldstein 3:54

I think that the 30,000 foot goal that I was mentioning is more so from the media perspective But it does play into the business goals as well, because the thing is, if you're looking to talk to more of a business audience strictly, but you're going on the Today Show, or let's say a local TV or radio station, it's not going to be, I mean, the today show is great, right? And everybody wants to today's show and it's only going to help you to get the today show. But if you really want to drill down and reach a specific audience, it's not going to help as much. If you're looking to reach your business audience as going on Bloomberg radio, CNBC TV, Fox business TV. So it all ties together. And I think you have to understand who your audience is and who you're talking to the most. That's the number one key. I would say

Jim_James 4:36

that's really useful just now once you've got that 30,000, foot plan, tell us about the roadmap from a practical point of view. What do you put into that roadmap? And is it an Excel spreadsheet? Is it some software you use? How do people do that from a practical point of view?

Justin_Goldstein 4:53

I try to keep it as simple as I can because. There are a lot of firms out there that put together detailed presentations for proposals or, detailed roadmaps. I try to keep it as simple as I possibly can because I know the client's going to be busy. So what I do is I pull together an action plan that essentially goes over the key metrics for the campaign. the target media that we're looking to approach it, it's more of a sampling, just so the client has a, a snapshot of what that might look like. And then some initial pitch ideas that could potentially work well. And then we build out from there and after that action plan is signed off on by the client, then we go in and we start developing pitches and we send them to the client for review. And once those initial pitches are signed off on, we get started on outreach. Then moving forward from there. We typically try to taper off sending clients pages because we don't want there to be a bottleneck or to them to feel like they have to put in more effort than they need to unless they want to. So, it's really getting on the same page in terms of that initial plan and then moving forward from there.

Jim_James 5:51

Justin, can you explain a little bit more detail about the magical pitch document?

Justin_Goldstein 5:56

Yeah, so. It really depends on who you're pitching, but I think one of the key things to keep in mind in this day and age is that brevity is key. So when you're pulling together a pitch, the subject line should be, straight to the point, you could put a little bit of creativity in there, but you don't want to go too far. You just want the contact to easily understand exactly what it is that you're pitching and the body of emails should be the same, so, I always start with an upfront note that says, Hey, so-and-so or hi, so-and-so I know you'll cover XYZ. and you've been reporting on this kind of story over the past couple of weeks, curious if you're working on some additional coverage. And if so, I have this client that I think would be a great fit to talk about that and share some information in the pitch below. but brevity is really key and I think it's also. Making sure that you have the right information in there that is actually going to get them to keep their eyes on the emails. So it's getting an understanding of, okay, what kind of assets do they need? Do they need headshots? Do they need, content like video or audio? So if you can mix and match and put all that information in there you'll have it more of a chance of success.

Jim_James 7:02

I think Justin you've mentioned brevity, but a few things that you've reeled off, perhaps almost unknowingly, but absolutely key is one is the personalization of the email, right? done. Another is that you've actually led your pitch with information about what they're writing about or covering already not about your client from the sounds of things.

Justin_Goldstein 7:21

Correct? Yeah, absolutely. I should say that it really depends actually on what you are pitching. So I typically say if you're inviting reporters to events, a mass email is fine. They understand that you're trying to get as many people to go as you possibly can. And my experience has been that. Reporters are generally okay with writing back and saying, Hey, I really appreciate the invite, but I just, I, I don't cover anything related to this. There, there are less, I think, or I should say they're more understanding of it because they know you have to invite a huge press list to get people to come in the first place. But when it comes to pitching a story, that's where you really have to be personalized. Because the last thing a reporter wants to see is that they're not being paid attention to, and it feels less special when they get your email. And also think about it. Like when you get a marketing email on your LinkedIn inbox, for example, right? It's like when you get an email, that's like, Hey, we can help you to solve X, Y, Z problem. And this is more about our company and blah, blah, blah. It just doesn't feel real. So that's why you have to take the time to do it. But I think following an 80 20 rule, especially if you're on a time crunch is good. So that means focusing 80% of your time. On that 20 spending the time on personalizing your emails and really trying to get in the right way. And then the other 20% is, if you have the time great, if not just putting together an email that at least feels like it's a fit for them in terms of the topic.

Jim_James 8:40

Yeah. So a tier one tier two list there. Okay, so you've got your pitch. And I think that what's great though, if you mentioned the need to personalize and also to, to really court the journalist with information about what they're writing about already, and then setting the context for what you're your own client can provide, right? So there's this match. How do you get it to lift off the page? Because as Justin, the media are getting tens per day hundreds per week. How do you get your pitch to stand out? Because lots of media relations experts are personalizing contextualizing. Now, how do you make it come off the page?

Justin_Goldstein 9:20

I think the brevity really is the first part, the first part, because that will help to set you apart from the report from the from the people that are pitching essays, essentially. so that's number one, number two, I would say calls to action. Are important as well. So if you're looking to have a reporter respond to you, frame up your email to basically say that, meaning you could say something like, would you be interested in connecting with so-and-so? any input would be appreciated or can we schedule a call to discuss, right? Because then it puts into their head that there's an action. They actually have to take. I mean, whether or not they take it as. unpredictable, but at least it puts out there that you're looking for something in return. And if reporters have the time to read your email, they'll get that without you saying that. But most that are running at a hundred miles an hour. If they don't see that call to action, they're going to be like, oh, I don't have to do anything with this. Like, I've 50 other things to do. I'll flag it for later or I'll just move on and not even care. So that's why it's important that that call to action is in there.

Jim_James 10:19

And do you ever use the diplomatic clause where you ask people to respond by a certain date or a certain time?

Justin_Goldstein 10:27

If. I'm pitching a story to the New York times. I try to give a little bit of leeway because it's the New York times. and if I'm pitching it, let's say, a month or two in advance, then we have a little bit more buffer time to not start off with that deadline. So it makes it seem less, I don't know, just less awkward maybe where you're asking like a New York times reporter to get back to you by a certain time. it's the right thing to do, but I think you have to just assess what your timing is, but if it's unexclusive, I typically don't.

Jim_James 10:52

okay. So if you're offering an exclusive, you give first time notice or a first come first serve.

Justin_Goldstein 10:59

exactly. I might say, yeah. I might say if you could let me know within 48 hours, right. Because that gives them a day to read the email, then they, and usually I'll say just feedback, right? Meaning my expecting you to commit, but can you just give me some kind of direction on whether you might pursue or not within 48 hours that I think. Yeah, cause then you're not making it as pressure-filled. They don't feel like they have to go to their editor and get signed off.

Jim_James 11:23

Well, I think you've also raised up another good point about the fact that the journalist often has to get the approval of an editor before pursuing a story. And I think not everyone's aware of that, right? The journalist doesn't necessarily have the freedom to choose which they cover. So should you be aiming to get the journalist or should you be aiming to get the editor or the publisher when you do a pitch?

Justin_Goldstein 11:47

So I would say if you're pitching an op-ed or a byline, it's always, you're always going to go to an editor because reporters don't handle that. But if you're looking to get a story opportunity. It's better to go to the reporter because they can do a better job of selling it in than you. And I think if an editor hears from a journalist, why they should pursue it versus a publicist, it's a totally different conversation. So I would recommend sticking with the journalists.

Jim_James 12:10

Okay. And then we have to help the journalists don't we, to, to sell it in. What about the followup call? Just in, because we all know that media have got a lot of emails. you, do you have a practice in terms of sending SMS or WhatsApps or chasing people down on LinkedIn? What do you do that?

Justin_Goldstein 12:32

I think hitting the phone is the most important thing anyone pitching can do. Some reporters are going to, some reporters are gonna have an adverse reaction. Some reporters are going to be very. Fine and nice about it. It's much like sales, you just know, and I don't want to compare a PR to sales, but it's, it's similar in the sense that you don't know who you're going to get. and in this day and age where reporters are getting a million emails, it's very important to do that. If you want to be persistent to get that opportunity, because then at least you can get some quick feedback. and it helps to guide next steps. But I think hitting the phone is more important than messaging on LinkedIn tech. Well, texting, as part of the phone, but. Even texting cause you're having more of a real conversation. DM-ing on Twitter. The most important thing you can do is call. but not every reporter has a, has a phone number. So I think the next step is that I would say LinkedIn, unless a reporter puts on their or profile that you can DM them. I think LinkedIn is a little bit better cause it's just in that professional setting. so I would go phone, well, email first then, then LinkedIn. and then, you could see if maybe there's an opportunity to go on more traditional social, like Twitter. but yeah, I can't stress enough how much I, I use the phone, especially for broadcast media.

Jim_James 13:41

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Why, why do you think broadcast media is different to the other media?

Justin_Goldstein 13:46

I don't think they're different in terms of whether they are open to phone calls, but they're much harder to reach on email than Than a traditional print online journalists, I think just because the nature of a 24-hour newsroom, they're constantly sending reporters into the field, like fielding calls from the everyday person about a story. It's just a different beast. So I think that they, they just don't have as much time to respond to email. And they're also a little bit, I don't want to use forgetful, but it's, cause it's not, I don't think it's that per se. It's just that they're. They're less apt to fully commit to something, unless you get them on the phone. because they just lose sight of the emails and it just gets to be a cluster.

Jim_James 14:26

Now let's talk about the the story that you helped the client to build Justin, because you talked about the pitch the client needs to have a good story. How important is storytelling and how do you help clients to do that? What are some key elements you think? Yeah.

Justin_Goldstein 14:42

It really depends on the, on the media kind of media coverage that you're looking to get. it really depends on which avenue you're looking at storytelling from a pitch perspective. I think storytelling is overrated personally. I think, I think that it's more about just effectively communicating the kind of story you want to tell, but actually telling the story in the pitch isn't necessary per se. But as a brand, if you're looking to tell a story, it is very important. because reporters have to understand who you are, what you do, and that is important to sealing the deal. I think in short, in terms of moving the story or the media coverage opportunity over the finish line, but when it comes to getting that initial reporter interests, I don't think going into a pitch from a storytelling perspective, as opposed to, Hey, here's the story I've got to tell, what I mean is, is it's different. because again, you have to have that brevity. So going into an entire detailed story in an email pitch probably isn't going to work as well as just giving the facts of what the story are.

Jim_James 15:39

Okay. So when would you deliver that? So let's say you've got past the journalist they're interested. Do you have a second wave of material that you send the journalist? How do you get them prepared for the interview or the optunity?

Justin_Goldstein 15:53

Yeah. So I think it depends on what the request is. If you're working with a broadcast outlet, there's typically a list of assets that work well, like headshots B role, which is essentially a prerecorded video that relates back to the interview opportunity broadcast producers for the most part, like suggested questions. because again, if they're running around like crazy, they don't have the time to think about it. In fact, like some even send a booking form where you fill out the questions in the form so it's a little bit different than print online. I think print online reporters are more apps and not Favour that because it makes it seem like you're giving your job, their job for them. So I would say for print online, though, it really depends on what exactly the conversation is. And typically, unless they ask for something in advance, you'll send something as a follow up. Like you might say like your spokesperson or, or if you are the spokesperson, you might say, oh, I remember like, there's this great study that goes into this story and they'll say, oh, can you send me the study after we get off the call? So I found that typically the assets or prints online, come after you're done with your conversation.

Jim_James 16:49

one of the things that happens for many of us is we arrange an interview and then it doesn't happen, for one reason or another clients by and large, pretty disappointed things. It's the agency's fault because the journalist irresponsible and, and other words, how do you handle that? Just in where the journalist can't make it for whatever reason they postpone or cancel on you.

Justin_Goldstein 17:11

So I think it's communicating to the client "this is normal and it just happens. And ultimately, if we want to build a relationship with a reporter, We have to let it go, right. we could complain to the reporter and say, how could you miss this? Can you please not do that? All that's going to do is create friction and it's not going to lead to a productive conversation in the future. I think the way to handle it with the reporter is to say, first, can we reschedule? And most of the time, if a reporter has committed to a conversation, if it's on the print online side, they're going to reschedule. So I typically don't even worry about that. but I would say the one key thing you can do is, but get an understanding of, would it be helpful for me to get the spokesperson schedule for you to find your availability within that or vice versa? Because. Typically what I do when I'm booking an interview is I always ask what the reporter's schedule up front first, because I think that lessens the chance of something like that is going to happen. But ultimately, if it does happen, you have to play both sides and be very understanding of both sides. Be very calm with the client and understand that, they're frustrated because they took time out of their day with other meetings to do this. understand that the reporter probably got pulled into something time sensitive, and that's why they couldn't do it because, the reporter wants to have the conversation. They wouldn't commit to it unless they found some value in it. Right. So it's not like they're doing it because they just feel like it. They usually it's a good reason, but I think you have to coach your client and make them understand that while it is frustrating. Understandably. That if you want to do media, you have to accept the consequences of what might happen when you commit time to doing this. And if you want to build a relationship, it's like building a relationship with the customer. You're not going to go and tell the customer, like, what the hell did you do? You're going to try to, smooth it over and just make it as good of a situation as possibly can.

Jim_James 18:52

Justin Goldstein of press record in New York. How can people find out more about you if they want to get more of your amazing professional skills or media relations?

Justin_Goldstein 19:03

Sure. So, the best place to find us is www.press record dot C O. So P R E S S R E C O R d.co. And yeah, we'd love to hear from anybody.

Jim_James 19:14

Justin, thank you so much for joining me today. I know you've just had a baby son two months ago, so congratulations. But I know that it's also tiring. So I appreciate you taking the time out Of your busy schedule. And if anyone knows how to get noticed it's babies.

Justin_Goldstein 19:30

Yeah,

Jim_James 19:31

All right. Thank you so much.

Justin_Goldstein 19:33

no problem. Thanks for having me.